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Post by willfan97 on Nov 27, 2017 13:45:34 GMT
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Post by bennyd on Nov 30, 2017 1:39:06 GMT
The film opens in DC on December 15th, but I’m probably going to wait until after New Years to go see it.
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Post by bennyd on Jan 8, 2018 16:50:23 GMT
James and I saw Call Me By Your Name on Saturday. I can’t say there’s was much wrong with the film on screen. The cinematography was beautiful, the story is sweet and well written, the acting is top notch. BUT, Timothée Chalemet’s performance is simply stunning (damn Gary Oldman for making The Darkest Hour) because that’s probably the only difference in Timothee getting an Oscar and not getting one. But if he gives this type performance with every film he does moving forward, then he is destined for greatness! He was also in Lady Bird which I haven’t seen yet. If there is one problem I have with the film is that it took WAY too long for Oliver and Elio giving in too their attraction, but that had more to do with the stubbornness of Oliver (Armie Hammer’s character). The film was set in 1983 (the book was set in 1987) so obviously there was still much trepidation for some gay or bisexual men to act on a same sex attraction. But once they do give in to their attraction for each other, the intimate scenes are very well done, very sensual. But no overt sex. Which is okay, but here’s where the movie differs from the book and more importantly with James Ivory’s screenplay. His screenplay called for explicit sex scenes and a lot of nudity (including frontal). Remember Maurice? Luca Guadagnino rewrote those scenes to specifically tone down the scenes. Apparently, Ivory was very critical of this - saying Guadagnino was “Americanizing” the film. Because you know, Americans can’t handle seeing a man’s penis or seeing a naked man on top of another naked man, that’s my commentary, btw! Ivory went on to comment about the double standard in American films in regards to male/female nudity. Btw, Timothée and Armie had added to their contracts that they wouldn’t do frontal nudity. There is a very well done coming of age gay 2016 French film titled Being 17 about two teens who start out in a volitle relationship (one actually bullies the other) that includes an explicit sex scene and frontal nudity. The development of their relationship is very well written. But what a different attitude other countries have when it comes to sex and nudity. But most American film goers sure don’t mind blood and gore and violence. Okay, enough of my little tirade. One other thing to add is this film has been in development for ten years - even before the book was actually finished. When the okay to move forward with the film was given in 2015, Shia LeBeouf auditioned for the role of Elio! My first thought was he’s too old to play Elio (he’s nine years older than Timothée), but apparently the main reason he wasn’t cast was because of his reputation for getting into trouble.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 8, 2018 18:16:44 GMT
James and I saw Call Me By Your Name on Saturday. I can’t say there’s was much wrong with the film on screen. The cinematography was beautiful, the story is sweet and well written, the acting is top notch. BUT, Timothée Chalemet’s performance is simply stunning (damn Gary Oldman for making The Darkest Hour) because that’s probably the only difference in Timothee getting an Oscar and not getting one. But if he gives this type performance with every film he does moving forward, then he is destined for greatness! He was also in Lady Bird which I haven’t seen yet. If there is one problem I have with the film is that it took WAY too long for Oliver and Elio giving in too their attraction, but that had more to do with the stubbornness of Oliver (Armie Hammer’s character). The film was set in 1983 (the book was set in 1987) so obviously there was still much trepidation for some gay or bisexual men to act on a same sex attraction. But once they do give in to their attraction for each other, the intimate scenes are very well done, very sensual. But no overt sex. Which is okay, but here’s where the movie differs from the book and more importantly with James Ivory’s screenplay. His screenplay called for explicit sex scenes and a lot of nudity (including frontal). Remember Maurice? Luca Guadagnino rewrote those scenes to specifically tone down the scenes. Apparently, Ivory was very critical of this - saying Guadagnino was “Americanizing” the film. Because you know, Americans can’t handle seeing a man’s penis or seeing a naked man on top of another naked man, that’s my commentary, btw! Ivory went on to comment about the double standard in American films in regards to male/female nudity. Btw, Timothée and Armie had added to their contracts that they wouldn’t do frontal nudity. There is a very well done coming of age gay 2016 French film titled Being 17 about two teens who start out in a volitle relationship (one actually bullies the other) that includes an explicit sex scene and frontal nudity. The development of their relationship is very well written. But what a different attitude other countries have when it comes to sex and nudity. But most American film goers sure don’t mind blood and gore and violence. Okay, enough of my little tirade. One other thing to add is this film has been in development for ten years - even before the book was actually finished. When the okay to move forward with the film was given in 2015, Shia LeBeouf auditioned for the role of Elio! My first thought was he’s too old to play Elio (he’s nine years older than Timothée), but apparently the main reason he wasn’t cast was because of his reputation for getting into trouble. Even though the scenes were not explicit I still wonder if the movie was still too hot for Voters to handle. I know Moonlight won the Oscar last year but it was very tame compared to this movie. Also, Benny you should check out a movie on Netflix called Miss Stevens that Timothy is in. His character isn't gay in it but it still gives an amazing performance.
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Post by bennyd on Jan 8, 2018 19:13:25 GMT
James and I saw Call Me By Your Name on Saturday. I can’t say there’s was much wrong with the film on screen. The cinematography was beautiful, the story is sweet and well written, the acting is top notch. BUT, Timothée Chalemet’s performance is simply stunning (damn Gary Oldman for making The Darkest Hour) because that’s probably the only difference in Timothee getting an Oscar and not getting one. But if he gives this type performance with every film he does moving forward, then he is destined for greatness! He was also in Lady Bird which I haven’t seen yet. If there is one problem I have with the film is that it took WAY too long for Oliver and Elio giving in too their attraction, but that had more to do with the stubbornness of Oliver (Armie Hammer’s character). The film was set in 1983 (the book was set in 1987) so obviously there was still much trepidation for some gay or bisexual men to act on a same sex attraction. But once they do give in to their attraction for each other, the intimate scenes are very well done, very sensual. But no overt sex. Which is okay, but here’s where the movie differs from the book and more importantly with James Ivory’s screenplay. His screenplay called for explicit sex scenes and a lot of nudity (including frontal). Remember Maurice? Luca Guadagnino rewrote those scenes to specifically tone down the scenes. Apparently, Ivory was very critical of this - saying Guadagnino was “Americanizing” the film. Because you know, Americans can’t handle seeing a man’s penis or seeing a naked man on top of another naked man, that’s my commentary, btw! Ivory went on to comment about the double standard in American films in regards to male/female nudity. Btw, Timothée and Armie had added to their contracts that they wouldn’t do frontal nudity. There is a very well done coming of age gay 2016 French film titled Being 17 about two teens who start out in a volitle relationship (one actually bullies the other) that includes an explicit sex scene and frontal nudity. The development of their relationship is very well written. But what a different attitude other countries have when it comes to sex and nudity. But most American film goers sure don’t mind blood and gore and violence. Okay, enough of my little tirade. One other thing to add is this film has been in development for ten years - even before the book was actually finished. When the okay to move forward with the film was given in 2015, Shia LeBeouf auditioned for the role of Elio! My first thought was he’s too old to play Elio (he’s nine years older than Timothée), but apparently the main reason he wasn’t cast was because of his reputation for getting into trouble. Even though the scenes were not explicit I still wonder if the movie was still too hot for Voters to handle. I know Moonlight won the Oscar last year but it was very tame compared to this movie. Also, Benny you should check out a movie on Netflix called Miss Stevens that Timothy is in. His character isn't gay in it but it still gives an amazing performance. I’ll check it out - because I am definitely a huge fan now. James read on line that Timothée dated Madonna’s daughter Lourdes for a short time. I guess the next big gay film that is coming out is Boy Erased (based on a true story) starring Lucas Hedges, Nicole Kidman, Russell Crowe, Joel Edgerton (from Loving), and openly gay singer Troye Sivan. Lucas Hedges is also in Lady Bird.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 8, 2018 19:45:40 GMT
Even though the scenes were not explicit I still wonder if the movie was still too hot for Voters to handle. I know Moonlight won the Oscar last year but it was very tame compared to this movie. Also, Benny you should check out a movie on Netflix called Miss Stevens that Timothy is in. His character isn't gay in it but it still gives an amazing performance. I’ll check it out - because I am definitely a huge fan now. James read on line that Timothée dated Madonna’s daughter Lourdes for a short time. I guess the next big gay film that is coming out is Boy Erased (based on a true story) starring Lucas Hedges, Nicole Kidman, Russell Crowe, Joel Edgerton (from Loving), and openly gay singer Troye Sivan. Lucas Hedges is also in Lady Bird. I'm a big fan of Lucas's. He was great in Manchester By The Sea.
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Post by bennyd on Jan 9, 2018 1:53:20 GMT
So Will, what did you think of Gary Oldman’s performance in The Darkest Hour? Is it really Oscar worthy or is it just critics and awards season voters giving acolades for a veteran actor using a face prosthesis and makeup to portray a historic figure? I’m still bitter about Meryl Streep winning for the awful film The Iron Lady over Viola Davis in The Help. I’ve seen predictions that Oldman will win all the major awards as a reward for his career body of work, but to be honest the only film I remember him in is the not very good Dracula remake with Winona Ryder and Keanu Reeves! I didn’t even know he was British! I would love to see James Franco win for The Disaster Artist (which I plan on seeing) - my daughter Amanda saw TDA and loved it, but she has seen The Room and is actually a big fan of the apparently really bad cult film, lol.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 9, 2018 2:41:13 GMT
So Will, what did you think of Gary Oldman’s performance in The Darkest Hour? Is it really Oscar worthy or is it just critics and awards season voters giving acolades for a veteran actor using a face prosthesis and makeup to portray a historic figure? I’m still bitter about Meryl Streep winning for the awful film The Iron Lady over Viola Davis in The Help. I’ve seen predictions that Oldman will win all the major awards as a reward for his career body of work, but to be honest the only film I remember him in is the not very good Dracula remake with Winona Ryder and Keanu Reeves! I didn’t even know he was British! I would love to see James Franco win for The Disaster Artist (which I plan on seeing) - my daughter Amanda saw TDA and loved it, but she has seen The Room and is actually a big fan of the apparently really bad cult film, lol. There's nothing I'd love to see more than Timothy win. I'd be happy with James too. But if Oldman wins I can't say he won't deserve it. Half the time I don't know Oldman is in a movie until I see his name in the credits. He transforms himself in every role he plays, he never looks the same. I still can't believe he was Sirius Black in Harry Potter.
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Post by honeybees on Jan 9, 2018 23:16:13 GMT
Okay, I saw Call Me By Your Name, and I will give my thoughts under the spoiler bars. First of all, I loved the film. Timothy Chalamet gives one of the best lead performances I've seen in a long time. He's a revelation. He should not only be nominated for best actor (not supporting) but win.
I loved the naturalistic tone, the use of silence. The way the attraction built up. Unlike you Benny, I didn't have a problem with how long it took for them to give in - because I think Oliver was in a work situation and jumping in bed with the young son of your boss is something anyone would think twice about when you're a guest in their home. I think Oliver waited until he was sure Elio was ready/knew what he wanted and wasn't going to mess things up with Oliver's internship.
I also didn't have a problem with it because I felt like the love story was pretty one-sided. I think Oliver was attracted to and had lots of affection and maybe was a little in love with Elio. Yet, I thought it was always clearly just a fling for Oliver. He was always planning to return to his girlfriend. I didn't see Oliver as villainous, but I did see him as an older man who was caught up in the romance and the setting and how wonderful Elio was, but it wasn't some great love affair for him.
Whereas, I thought Elio was experiencing his first true, mad passionate love and would have stayed with Oliver forever if he could. I thought Timothy gave one of the best portrayals of a teenager in his first blush of love and passion that I have ever seen onscreen, and I was amazed at how vulnerable the film let him be.
I think Elio was an amazingly well-written and portrayed character, too.
I think I would have liked the love scenes to be a little more explicit, because maybe if they had been I would have gotten a sense of Oliver being more into the relationship than he was. Again, I thought he was attracted to and cared about Elio, but not madly in love.
Obviously, it's not Oliver's story, and I thought Armie Hammer did a great job portraying the slightly smarmy side to Oliver and I absolutely think Oliver cared about Elio and was attracted to him. Hammer's best moments, to me, where when he realized what a big deal this all was for Elio and how he felt sad that he was going to hurt him. Hammer did this with a few compassionate looks.
I loved that Elio's classicist father idealized the relationship and was compassionate about Elio's heartbreak.
So, I loved the film but I didn't think it was a great love story. I thought it was a great portrayal of a young man's first love and heartbreak and there's a difference.
I saw it with a friend who was alarmed at how old she thought Oliver was. She thought he was more like 35 based on Hammer's looks (I think he was 29 when he shot it) but she relaxed a bit when I said Oliver was supposed to be only 24. That said, she didn't like Oliver at all and thought he was using Elio and wanted Elio to find "a nice boy his own age." She's a mom, what can I say?
I loved that Elio was cast with someone so young because it was ultimately about a teenager's first love/sexual passion and the film nailed it.
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Post by honeybees on Jan 10, 2018 21:41:36 GMT
Okay, I saw Call Me By Your Name, and I will give my thoughts under the spoiler bars. First of all, I loved the film. Timothy Chalamet gives one of the best lead performances I've seen in a long time. He's a revelation. He should not only be nominated for best actor (not supporting) but win.
I loved the naturalistic tone, the use of silence. The way the attraction built up. Unlike you Benny, I didn't have a problem with how long it took for them to give in - because I think Oliver was in a work situation and jumping in bed with the young son of your boss is something anyone would think twice about when you're a guest in their home. I think Oliver waited until he was sure Elio was ready/knew what he wanted and wasn't going to mess things up with Oliver's internship.
I also didn't have a problem with it because I felt like the love story was pretty one-sided. I think Oliver was attracted to and had lots of affection and maybe was a little in love with Elio. Yet, I thought it was always clearly just a fling for Oliver. He was always planning to return to his girlfriend. I didn't see Oliver as villainous, but I did see him as an older man who was caught up in the romance and the setting and how wonderful Elio was, but it wasn't some great love affair for him.
Whereas, I thought Elio was experiencing his first true, mad passionate love and would have stayed with Oliver forever if he could. I thought Timothy gave one of the best portrayals of a teenager in his first blush of love and passion that I have ever seen onscreen, and I was amazed at how vulnerable the film let him be.
I think Elio was an amazingly well-written and portrayed character, too.
I think I would have liked the love scenes to be a little more explicit, because maybe if they had been I would have gotten a sense of Oliver being more into the relationship than he was. Again, I thought he was attracted to and cared about Elio, but not madly in love.
Obviously, it's not Oliver's story, and I thought Armie Hammer did a great job portraying the slightly smarmy side to Oliver and I absolutely think Oliver cared about Elio and was attracted to him. Hammer's best moments, to me, where when he realized what a big deal this all was for Elio and how he felt sad that he was going to hurt him. Hammer did this with a few compassionate looks.
I loved that Elio's classicist father idealized the relationship and was compassionate about Elio's heartbreak.
So, I loved the film but I didn't think it was a great love story. I thought it was a great portrayal of a young man's first love and heartbreak and there's a difference.
I saw it with a friend who was alarmed at how old she thought Oliver was. She thought he was more like 35 based on Hammer's looks (I think he was 29 when he shot it) but she relaxed a bit when I said Oliver was supposed to be only 24. That said, she didn't like Oliver at all and thought he was using Elio and wanted Elio to find "a nice boy his own age." She's a mom, what can I say?
I loved that Elio was cast with someone so young because it was ultimately about a teenager's first love/sexual passion and the film nailed it. I am finding the reactions to the film very interesting. I'm seeing a lot of what I think are over-idealizations of the relationship and I'm really seeing a lot of people who are engaging in what I would call bi-erasure. Both Oliver and Elio are not gay, they are bisexual or pansexual but almost certainly they are not exclusively gay. This is very much portrayed both in the film and in the book backs that up. There are two sex scenes with Elio and his girlfriend and they are very specifically showing him to enjoy it, and the book makes it clear he does. He just doesn't love her. He loves Oliver. The movie heavily implies Oliver is carrying on with at least one of the town girls while he is with Elio. I also saw someone refer to Elio's father as closeted gay, but I didn't see it that way at all. He clearly loves and is attracted to Elio's mother. As a classics professor, he simply feels like he missed out on having a relationship with a man - much as was the norm in the classical world - before he was married and settled down. To me, this isn't a flaw. It is an interesting part of the story, but the author of the book is not gay and is a classics scholar. I think he wrote the book to portray a modern version of classical pansexuality or bisexuality in men. Although it's not in the movie, in the book both Elio and Oliver marry women and have kids. With Oliver, there's no question he's happy. Elio still pines for Oliver but (I am told by a friend as I haven't read it) it is left ambiguous if it's because Elio is gay or if Elio just pines for his one great love that happened to be Oliver. This makes the story very interesting to me. I've written book that takes place in the classical world, and I love the way that world was far more accepting of fluid sexuality. Yet, I don't think bi erasure is a good thing. I also so saw someone going on about how sad it was that Oliver married a woman and how awful that was for him, and I was like - what are you basing that on? In the film, he's totally fine with it. Maybe...just maybe...he's repressing all his gayness because of his father, but I really didn't see that in the film. Again, I loved the film for its complexity and the messiness of the love affair and how great a character Elio is, but I do think that people are over simplifying its story and definitely over-idealizing Oliver. Also, I took an Italian Cinema class in college, and I've always loved the Italian directors from the 40s and 50s, and Luca is such an amazing director. There's so much absolutely gorgeous detail and wonderful shots in the film The last shot of Elio's face, and the way it is held. The scene at the statue that's just one long take. The dancing with the strangers at the car. All these are so much a part of the Italian tradition.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 10, 2018 23:02:51 GMT
I guess I saw their relationships with women differently and didn't think it mean't they were Bi. I mean almost every movie, mostly small independent movies, I've seen about closeted gay men having sex with women before coming out all depict the men as enjoying it. Even in Brokeback Mountain the 2 main characters were shown having sex with women and enjoying it. And on Days Will was depicted as enjoying sex with Gabi. I never understood why they always seem to do it like this.
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Post by bennyd on Jan 10, 2018 23:38:46 GMT
I guess I saw their relationships with women differently and didn't think it mean't they were Bi. I mean almost every movie, mostly small independent movies, I've seen about closeted gay men having sex with women before coming out all depict the men as enjoying it. Even in Brokeback Mountain the 2 main characters were shown having sex with women and enjoying it. And on Days Will was depicted as enjoying sex with Gabi. I never understood why they always seem to do it like this. I agree with you Will (sorry honeybee). I was married to a woman during the majority of the 80’s even though I knew I was gay (and sneaking around). With AIDS hysteria, it was a very difficult time to come out. I eventually did in 1987. Just last night I asked James if the book/film was set in present time if he thought Oliver would have married a woman. He didn’t say anything about the possibility that Oliver might have been bisexual - he simply said “I don’t know. There are still plenty of gay men today who are still scared to come out.” Also in regards to Elio clearly enjoying sex with the girl, I was definitely having sex with women in my late teens/early twenties. But for me it was just about sex. Plus I was suppressing my homosexuality. That’s not to take anything away from bisexuality. There’s a possibility that one or both characters might be. In fact there’s already talk of a sequel in which Guadagnino has said that he could see Elio back in a sexual relationship with Marzia. Timothée and Armie have stated that they would be interested in doing a sequel.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 10, 2018 23:58:57 GMT
I guess I saw their relationships with women differently and didn't think it mean't they were Bi. I mean almost every movie, mostly small independent movies, I've seen about closeted gay men having sex with women before coming out all depict the men as enjoying it. Even in Brokeback Mountain the 2 main characters were shown having sex with women and enjoying it. And on Days Will was depicted as enjoying sex with Gabi. I never understood why they always seem to do it like this. I agree with you Will (sorry honeybee). I was married to a woman during the majority of the 80’s even though I knew I was gay (and sneaking around). With AIDS hysteria, it was a very difficult time to come out. I eventually did in 1987. Just last night I asked James if the book/film was set in present time if he thought Oliver would have married a woman. He didn’t say anything about the possibility that Oliver might have been bisexual - he simply said “I don’t know. There are still plenty of gay men today who are still scared to come out.” Also in regards to Elio clearly enjoying sex with the girl, I was definitely having sex with women in my late teens/early twenties. But for me it was just about sex. Plus I was suppressing my homosexuality. That’s not to take anything away from bisexuality. There’s a possibility that one or both characters might be. In fact there’s already talk of a sequel in which Guadagnino has said that he could see Elio back in a sexual relationship with Marzia. Timothée and Armie have stated that they would be interested in doing a sequel. Given the time period for this movie and how heartbroken Elio was I can see him getting back with Mariza.
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Post by honeybees on Jan 11, 2018 0:50:54 GMT
I agree with you Will (sorry honeybee). I was married to a woman during the majority of the 80’s even though I knew I was gay (and sneaking around). With AIDS hysteria, it was a very difficult time to come out. I eventually did in 1987. Just last night I asked James if the book/film was set in present time if he thought Oliver would have married a woman. He didn’t say anything about the possibility that Oliver might have been bisexual - he simply said “I don’t know. There are still plenty of gay men today who are still scared to come out.” Also in regards to Elio clearly enjoying sex with the girl, I was definitely having sex with women in my late teens/early twenties. But for me it was just about sex. Plus I was suppressing my homosexuality. That’s not to take anything away from bisexuality. There’s a possibility that one or both characters might be. In fact there’s already talk of a sequel in which Guadagnino has said that he could see Elio back in a sexual relationship with Marzia. Timothée and Armie have stated that they would be interested in doing a sequel. Given the time period for this movie and how heartbroken Elio was I can see him getting back with Mariza. I haven't read the book, but again my friend who has says that Elio is the one who is portrayed as more ambiguous than Oliver, who is portrayed as pansexual or bi. Elio doesn't seem to love anyone but Oliver in the book, which could be read as gay but it's still ambiguous. I certainly can accept an interpretation of Elio as leaning toward gay even though he can have sex with girls and enjoy it. Although, I never saw Will on Days as enjoying sex with Gabi. He always seemed rather awkward and trying too hard. I still maintain sexuality is fluid for a lot of people, but certainly not all. I am just very uncomfortable with the idea of erasing bisexual people in order to validate others. This particular text strikes me as one about fluidity and being able to embrace all forms of eroticism.
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Post by Will68 on Jan 12, 2018 3:06:11 GMT
Tonight at the Critics Choice Awards Gary Oldman beat out Timothy again for Best Actor in a Drama. We have the SAG Awards and Oscars to go.
Call Me By Your Name did win Best Adapted Screenplay.
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